A lot of anime that we watch, mostly originated from Mangas. Examples include the classic Doraemon. Those that don't originate from Mangas, may come from other story sources, such as games (Fate Stay Night), light novels (Bakemonogatari), or purely original (Gundam Seed.)
Anyway, what I am going to talk about, is how some of these adaptations, particularly those from Manga, differ from their anime counterparts. A lot of times, when an anime is created, the contents inside are inconsistent with the original story, sometimes to great extents. In a way, you could say that they are not canon - not true to the original storyline.
Obviously, it is a great honor for an author, to have his/her work adapted to an anime. But I can't understand why these authors would agree to have their works altered in such a way, until it doesn't even resemble what they first did? Personally, if I am an author of a story, I wouldn't change the contents inside, due to someone's request, simply because he dislikes it. More often that not, some of these changes were greatly unnecessary, and leaving it as it was, would have done better justice than changing the original work. In short, not always logical or reasonable. It is hard for me to fathom why these authors would agree to these changes.
Anyway, here, I will list down some of the animes that I have watched, and how much they differ from the original work. You decide if these changes were necessary. If you think you can add to the list, please do so.
Skip Beat
I followed the manga and anime quite closely. One of the biggest difference is how they completely removed Kanae's story arc. The entire section, worth nearly 3/4 of one volume, was omitted.
Other significant changes, include changing that Mimori did not know Kyouko. Also, the part where Saionji's cronies trying to sabotage Kanae, was greatly shortened, which was a shame, since that is one of the funniest parts in the earlier chapters. Although not specifically clear in the final chapter, apparently, they removed the part where Kyouko shows up as Bo in a duck suit as well. Other minor changes include Kyouko getting lost after her conversation with Ren as Bo, or changing her middle finger into a thumbs down. (It's actually understandable in a way.)
Some of these changes, are particularly redundant, especially the Mimori part. As I watched the anime, I personally found some of the metaphorical parts needlessly exaggerated, to the point where it was somewhat annoying. In the Manga, these metaphorical parts (such as the part where Kyouko imagines Ren and Shou on their knees), where drawn in one picture with only a few lines, and it wasn't "in-your-face". I personally did not like the anime's annoying exaggerations.
Loki Matantei Ragnarok
I watched the anime complete, and only a few chapters of the manga. But I can say this much, it will be a much easier effort to list out the similarities, then find the differences. If I were the author, I would be like, "WTF? Is this my story?"
The anime seems to grossly focus on the comedy etc. The manga, I can say it is darker, and more bloody. If they wanted comedy, this shouldn't have been the top choice for adaptation.
Zoids Chaotic Century / Guardian Force
I watched the entire series, and read only the first book. In Japan, they are simply known as Zoids Anime, part 1 and 2.
Again, apart from using the same characters and settings, NOTHING is similar between the anime and manga.
I dare say that for this, I loved the anime many times more than the Manga. I didn't like the Manga at all, but I really love the anime series.
Samurai Deeper Kyo
Again, as I would call it, another WTF series. There's really very little similarities between the Anime and Manga. I watched the entire anime, and only a few chapters from the manga, and I was like, "What the hell?"
In the manga, there were none of these Kenyos, and there's Botenmaru.
In the anime, there's no such person as Botenmaru, and the storyline extends way, way further than the anime. Last episode was as confusing as hell, I recall.
To be perfectly honest, I prefer the drawn anime version of Kyo. The manga version of Kyo, the way he grins, looks like a naughty boy or pervert smile to me. The anime version, that bloodthirsty, diabolical smile looks more real, has more impact.
Love Hina
I read the whole manga for these series, and watched only a few episodes. In the Manga, there was no rich handsome guy chasing after Naru, and there were no freaky old men. I don't know why the hell they threw these inside the anime.
To be honest, the manga is very funny, but the anime is agonizing to watch. The only humor within the anime itself, seems to centralize everything on having Keitaro getting the crap beaten out of. The comedy that was in the Manga, is really lost. One of the reasons why I don't feel like reading or watching Negima.
Trigun
Only read a few chapters, but watched the whole anime. Much of the whole story remains intact. I noticed the anime did not follow the same order as the events in the Manga, though. For parts of the story in the manga, where the 2 girls didn't appear, they were included in the anime version of those parts.
Monster
A series that I hated. I compared the endings and beginnings of the anime and manga. They all matched. Possibly one of the rare true-to-manga anime series. Even the unique (but less-than-pretty) art style was kept.
Shining Tears X Wind
Anime adapted from the game Shining Wind, it focusses on Souma's storyline, rather than Kiriya's. I watched anime and completed the game.
Overall plot remains the same as the PS2 game, but there are still some very significant changes. In the game, Souma is to be executed by burning, but he is saved by Zero. Later, Shumari tries to escape, but he is stopped and killed by Killrain. In the anime, a cannon blast from Baelgard's ship killed Shumari, but Souma is saved by Zero. All shortened to one single event. In the game, Souma was not present in a few events, but the anime threw him and his party inside some of them. Examples include Lassi finding the secret entrance, Souma and group was added in that scene in the Anime. Several events were also shortened. In the game, there were a few series of events or battles before something happened, but the anime cut most of the unimportant ones out. In the scene where Kiriya and Xecty fell in the crevasse, in the game, he pulled out her Shinken. This did not happen in the anime.
The game never mentioned Traihart's name as Saionji, it was in the anime only. The anime also never showed Kiriya pulling anyone's normal Shinken except for Shiina and Kureha.
Neo Angelique Abyss
I played the game and watched both seasons of the anime. In the game, when Ereboros awakens, the game is already near the end. In the anime, it's only the end of season 1. Season 2, you could say follows an almost entirely original storyline. New characters were added in the anime, such as Roche, Mathias, and Jet. Mathias did not exist in the game, and Rene was already the leader.
Personally, although I don't dislike the game, I think I prefer the anime storyline.
Full Metal Alchemist
2 anime series have been released for this manga. Rather than a continuation, the second series is a different version of the same story.
I watched the whole of the 1st series and movie for it. From the reports, the anime series differ from the manga halfway through, following a different plot. This is supposedly due to the request from the author herself.
(The movie for the anime, in a way, wasn't consistent with actual historical events. :P )
Second series, Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood, is supposed to follow the manga closer. But I watched the first episode, and it wasn't about Lior. This is supposed to be closer to the manga? 0_o
Anyway, although I haven't watched much of the 2nd series, I have to say I like the 1st series very much. It is still one of my most favorites.
----
Right now, these are all the series I can think of at the top of my head. If you have any you can add to this list, or have something to say, please do.
Anyway, I'm trying to highlight that most anime series do not follow the manga storyline very closely. Sometimes, it's understandable, but more often than not, the change is unnecessary. Personally, as a fan, I do not like adaptations that do not follow the original storyline well. (Be they manga-to-anime, or anime-to-manga adaptations.) Sometimes, the creators of that anime or manga adaptation of the originals, they make changes that they see fit, without considering whether fans or viewers appreciate these changes.
Personally, from my own standpoint, if I were to create a story, and someone else takes it and change it in any way he likes, I would consider that disrespectful. I do not know why authors of these works would agree to have their work altered in such ways. I'm pretty sure fans of these respective series, don't particularly approve of these changes either.
I read the first 2 books of Harry Potter. I watched the 2 movies, and from what I know, most of the plot remains intact. If I recall right, some unimportant events were removed, but most of the plot remain true to the book. I believe that's the way it should be done.
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I don't watch a lot of anime, in fact the only series I watched that you talked about was Skip Beat. But I read and watch a lot of adaptations of books. Compared to the way books are mutilated on the big screen, the changes in Skip Beat seem very minor. I found the series quite enjoyable, in fact, because it did follow the manga, in both atmosphere and plot, fairly closely.
ReplyDeleteAnd when I talk about books being mutilated when the appear on the big screen, the Harry Potter movies are at the very top of my list. An avid reader of HP, I find the movies disappointing at the best of times.
I agree that the two first Harry potter movies and books are quite similar in the basic outline of the books, but the rest of the movies is WAT different, I prefer the books:)
ReplyDeleteSome changes from book/ manga to anime/ movies are necessary but I agree that some of the minor funny scenes would have been a lot better to keep more like the original plot:)
However concerning Skip Beat what annoys me the most is the ending, I really hope there will be a sequel. But I am happy they didn't make any filler episodes or seasons like they have done in Naruto and Bleach:P
Mutilation? Why would you say that? The Harry Potter movies have so far been consistent with the books. I only read 2, but they are consistent afaik. Why would you say that?
ReplyDeleteWell, I'll only comment on the series I've seen, 'cause you shouldn't speak about what you don't know ;p.
ReplyDeleteSo I've only seen Skip Beat and SDK.
As for Skip Beat I think the adaptation in anime is pretty good because there are not too much changes. Of course there are some, but it's still okay, and contrary to you, I like how they exaggerated the humor in the anime, it means they used every potentiality of an anime and I think it's cool that way. Though I can understand that one can be annoyed, especially if he knows the manga before. But I discovered Skip Beat with the anime, so for me it was just super fun ! ^^
However, what I hate with the anime is that they did not continue the story and interrupted it so abruptly, I think it's not a good thing, you've got to continue what you start/begin (didn't know which one to write u.u).
As for SDK I think totally differently from you : I HATE the anime adaptation. ^^ As you said it's a WTF version : there are absolutely nothing on common, and it's only because they didn't want to show people killing people, and only people killing monsters, so in order to do that they had to change all the enemies into monsters and then had to justify it, therefore they changed the whole story...
Man, why not just create another manga if you have to go that far ? -_-
However, I love the manga version, and if you've read only some chapters I think you should try and stick up with it a little more, it really is a great series. ^^ Oh, and Benitora does exist in the manga too ;).
Anyway, more generally I think like you : I think adaptations should be similar to the manga they come from, of course some changes are good : shorting parts that would be annoying, add some if necessary, but they should never go as far as to changing the story, if they do then it's not adapting anymore but inventing something new : if you're gonna do that then just create a new anime/manga but do respect the author's work.
Forgot to speak about HP >.>
ReplyDeleteIt is true that the 2 first books' adaptations are good, but if you haven't seen the others... well, don't, they are screwed up. ^^
The third is still ok, but the greatest problem with HP is that the book are longer and longer as the story goes whereas the movies keep the same lenght : 2 hours or so.
So of course, as you continue in the story, the movies are worst and worst, because they have to cut more and more parts.
At the end, one can use the word mutilating indeed, especially for the 5th and 6th.
It's sad, but true.
(Well, personally I'm not fond of the last books either, I loved the first 4, but I found the 5th, 6th and 7th annoying so...
The 6th movie was a shame for the theatre industry and I didn't even went to see the 7th.)
You're totally right about deviating from the originals, but I only wanted to point out that Benitora was indeed in the manga of Samurai deeper kyo. On all other points, though, great job!! This is such a disappointment, I wonder how the creators feel?
ReplyDeleteI've always thought this was an interesting subject, though more for movie adaptations of books than manga to anime because manga and anime are both visual so it seems like you wouldn't need to change as much. I was thinking about that the other day with Howl's Moving Castle. The book and the movie are hugely different, and I'm sure some of that's because of cultural differences between England and Japan. I like both of them. But I prefer the movie because the characters are deeper, and I think the story is better in the book, not to mention the relationship between Howl and Sophie. Though I like the movie, some of the things Miyazaki changed and added to the story change it so much that it doesn't really make sense when you look at it closely. Granted, once you take a British story and adapt it for a Japanese audience then translate it into English again it's bound to be a little weird, especially to an American, but Miyazaki obviously wanted to tell a different story than Diana Wynne Jones did, so it seems a little odd to me that he even used her story instead of making up his own that would better match what he wanted.
ReplyDeleteOn the subject of Harry Potter, I've been an HP fan for more than ten years and when I was growing up I always hated movie adaptations (like Disney's The Black Cauldron) because they were never the same and therefore never right, never good enough. I agree that the first two HP movies followed the books and captured the events very faithfully. But I think the movies after the first two captured the spirit of the series really well even if they cut out or messed around with the events. And as a writer who's been immersed in the Harry Potter fandom for a long time and read fanfic and come to enjoy different interpretations of the series, I enjoy the later movies more. I can see when they tweak the events, but I don't mind them doing that if it improves the pace or makes it easier to tell the story.
Now, I do dislike when they change the characters too much for no good reason. I think the movies were not kind to Ron Weasley, though you could say the later books weren't either. But if they keep the spirit of the series, I'm fine with the story being told in a different way (even if it did make me sad that movie Howl didn't have a Welsh accent).
Well hello there, I wrote a whole lot. Guess I'm opinionated. :)
ReplyDeleteActually, the first episode of Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood was basically a filler episode meant to introduce the manga plot line to the people who only watched the first series. After that everything was strongly consistent with the manga.
ReplyDeleteAs for the anime of Skip Beat, I was honestly more disappointed that it ended before the part when Kyouko was "helping" Ren act in is apartment. That was my favorite part in the manga :(
Over all I think I prefer animes that deviate from the manga because if i've already read the manga what point would there be in watching it if nothing was different.
I HATED the Samurai Deeper Kyo anime -it was too weird and different. I really loved the manga, but I must admit that the art in the first 2/3 wasn't great...However, from about volume 25 up, the art greatly improved. I think the author just got better. The current series by that author has GREAT art -probably my favorite style, art-wise.
ReplyDeleteAnd the Skip Beat anime was kinda stupid. It dragged out events in the beginning and then rushed them in the end. If they would've paced it better, they could have fit much more interesting parts in.
FMA is one of my favorite manga and anime. I saw the anime long before I read the manga, but I think the anime is good in and of itself. I was pleased with both.
I haven't actually really watched anime in years; I got bored of it. I watched the Yamato Nadeshiko Shichihenge, Shiki, and Hatenkou yuugi animes partway through, but never finished them. Books just do more for me. lol
I get what you mean about not wanting an adaption to your own piece of art work. Authors/Artists put their own blood and sweat into their creations. Plus side: This makes them good enough to be adapted. Down side: The adaptions bosh them up almost every time.
ReplyDeleteAs I am more of a book reader then a manga reader (with the exception of a few titles such as Skip Beat! which I absolutely love!!!!), I can say more about books than manga or anime, but they are closely related in that they have engaging plot and story telling (hopefully lol).
So why are so many parts left out of adaptions? One simple reason is the transferring from one form of media to another. You want to adapt according to which senses you are trying to reach, technology that you have at the time, the ever annoying factor of a budget, and the target audience you are aiming for. A few examples:
Romeo and Juliet.
ReplyDeleteThere are many abridged written versions, stage adaptions, movies, and specials. I babysit two kids and they watched a cartoon version of Romeo and Juliet. Most of the sensory details were there, others added in to keep them entertained (musical numbers, side characters dumbed down). Any adult content originally intended, or languge was masked. One pivital part of the plot was missing as well: the death of the two young lovers.
As compared to what I read in high school, the movie adaption I watched afterwords was full of lust rather than love (can't remember which version any more).
Therefore we know that adaptions also have to do with the interpretation of the writers, directors, actors, etc. Just as the text in the bible, or Quran, etc. is interpreted differently and results in different sects and scisms of their respective religions. I think this is a key part of why many adaptions turn out differently. Or you get to know very well the preferences of the director, like with Nurarihyon no Mago (the director seems to be seriously in love with this one girl and gives more attention to her and drawing out the plot than anything else).
As I mentioned earlier, format is a big part of this too. When it's a cartoon or anime, the comedy, movements, and such won't be the same when switching to a live format. This the same for books. In the book vs. movie vs. BBC drama version of Pride and Prejudice. Not only is the humor from a different century from ours, but the social aspects as well. The Drama, being longer in length and more true to the period concepts of beauty, it is a much better interpretation, conveys the character development on a deeper level. As opposed to the cinama versions, which is limited to Hollywood type standards and a shorter time length despite having fairly well known and talented actors. I've never seen a stage adaption, so I can't speak for it.
ReplyDeleteWhen turning something into a book, if the appropriate vocabulary and lunguage isn't suited to the story, it won't flow as well. Thats why I don't really get why they make manga versions of games or animes. I don't know why, but it feels backwards somehow. there is also the matter of how to switch visual and audio details into discriptions. Character designs changing from an anime to a manga (or the other way around)personally take some getting used to. Like, I got so used to the old school style of Glass Mask, that when I watched the anime, I had to remind myself that "yes, that is Masumi, nd Ayumi, dang it!"
Have you read A Christmas Carol? For me, the closest interpretations I've found are cartoon versions (the newer disney version with Jim Carey isn't half bad, contains a lot more of the book in it due to the advantages of the newer technology and made by lovers of the novel). The older live versions leave out the epic visuals of the book one can gourge on, simply because the appropriate technology was not available. Like convincingly flying or shrinking or quickly being moved from place to place. The message, however, seems to almost always be left intact, which is the most important. For an odd reason, though, I really enjoy it's stage adaptions.
Also, length of a story can make it hard to successfully adapt. It’s a fact that if there is no movement for more than ten seconds, attention of the viewer will be lost, and is hard to regain. If something significant doesn't happen at least (and this varies) every chapter or so in a book or manga, then chances are people will drop it. (This is why I think that cms and short stories are truly the hardest works to create, because you only have a short amount of time to pull off anything, especially anything worth remembering).
ReplyDeleteI found the Skip Beat! anime to do well in keeping the main plot, but the things they left out...were some of the things I looked most forward to seeing. I was all, "where'd it go!?" I laughed a lot, though the pacing could’ve done better. I believe it did well to advertise the manga; this may be the creators' aim when it comes to being adapted into an anime. Animes give their original works exposure, even if the animes deviate from the original story about 80% of the time (or more *shivers*). This is also a double edged sword: The original fans are disappointed, but new fans may be gained (if they end up liking the original story more than the anime which lead them to reading it). Lets just say that economically its smart? Either way, I'm usually one of the original fans, so I end up a little disappointed -_-.
The Harry Potter Series? Don't get me started. I have reread the entire series at least four times (I say "at least" because not even I am sure how many more times.) I'm that much of a geek, I know. (I've also read Skip Beat twice over so far, as I only just discovered it last year). So I think I can safely assume that the screenplay and interpretation of HP on the big screen is EXTREMELY DIFFERENT from the books as a whole.
ReplyDeleteA few things I can state is that:
1: The movies have gone through different directors and different visions throughout the filming process overall.
2. Likeness of characters? 76% And I'm being nice about it since, hey, I'm not expecting doppelgangers here. And I'm basing this off of character descriptions in the books. They seem to worry less and less about this later on, but they got most of the main characters pretty spot on.
3. I will say this for the movies; it really does well with its parallels with actual world events and the reactions of those that would be involved in them.
4. If they were going to make an adaption, I would have preferred it to be AFTER the series was completed. Many of the seemingly insignificant parts that were thrown out of the earlier movies turn out to be rather significant. Though this is part of the charm of the written series, the results for the movies are just... ~sigh~
ReplyDeleteWhat happens to these parts?
a] Officially thrown out, resulting developments in the plot therefore seem rushed (Harry's relationship with Jinny, for one).
b] Extra explainers have to be thrown in later so that everything will make sense to an audience who has not read the books. This I don't mind so much, but it makes it just a little bit strained.
c.] Details from the book are blatantly changed at the will of whoever's in charge. (This goes especially for The Half Blood Prince, ugh.)
5. Technology: Some techniques and animation are first class for the time they were made. Others, such as the epic and thoroughly crafted dementor and hipagriff(sp?) characters designs made for the third movie, are increasingly lazier made and less impactful in the later films.
6. It true that each book is longer than the last, and a lot of material has to be thrown out in order to keep the audience visually and dramatically satisfied; but there are some scenes that are more significant that I would have swapped in, or scenes I may have cut parts of. Though, this is just me, I'm not the one out there doing it, am I? So I'll take what I can get and be satisfied with what parts remain true to the cannon. So I will see it through to the end and be happy with it.
The examples I used for HP can be said of many film adaptations for many works, so it really is worth using lol.
I could go on and on forever about around 100 more books, 15 more mangas, 10 anime series, and half a dozen plays and tv dramas. But then, I would just be rambling or showing off or just turning this into a one sided conversation. Yes, that is a run on sentence.
@Chris
ReplyDeleteYou make a good point on some of those examples. However, those are classics, which is very different from those examples of Manga and anime.
For one thing, those stories of Romeo and Juliet are considered classics, so everyone knows them. The director/script writer would probably think of it as a challenge to improve them. These classics, any copyright they had is long gone as well.
Anyway, take the example of the Leonardo Dicaprio version of Romeo and Juliet. It was changed into a modern day setting. And Disney's Chicken Little? You can't even compare it to the original.
I would think of these as remastered versions of classics.
This is an extremely different case when you compare it to manga and anime. Readers know the title, when they see an anime to have the same title, they expect the story to be the same, not something totally original, and have no relation to the original manga.
@Rocketman
ReplyDeleteI disagree. Adaptations should always be canon and as close to the original as possible.
Tweaking, mutating the story, is a clear and blatant disrespect to the author, as well as it's fans.
I do not see anything wrong with an anime adaptation that follows a manga down to the letter. People who watch anime don't always read the same manga, and vice versa. And some, like me, just enjoy both of them.
But I personally won't be enjoying if there are too many changes.
Murdering the story is wrong on so many levels.
I've watched Trigun before! =D lol that was when I was like... 6-7 year's old >3> lol I haven't read the manga of it :P
ReplyDeleteHey Mechi, just a quick note.
ReplyDeleteSamurai Deeper Kyo is **MUUUCH** better in manga form than it was in anime form.
You should go back and read all of it.
I'm a fan of FMA and I think the reason why Brotherhood didn't follow the main story line was because the front of the 1st anime followed it before it deviated.
ReplyDeleteAh, Spherrow. Just the person I most wanted to see. I suppose you didn't post in the chapter 172 section, because it wasn't good enough for you, am I right?
ReplyDelete*Gives shiny smile*
Anyway, what I want to say now, is that we should have a name for series like these.
ReplyDeleteI think we should call these anime, WTF anime.
What do I mean? For example, Samurai Deeper Kyo. If you read the manga series, then watch the anime series, your first reaction would be, "WTF?". So that's why we should call these series, WTF series. Anime adaptations that have no relation to the manga series story.
For Samurai Deeper Kyo, I understand many people prefer the manga series much more. The truth is, I don't particularly care about that. My point is, comparing the artworks of the anime, and the manga, I really think I like the anime artwork better. The anime version draws Kyo evil and bloodthirsty, not something I saw in the first few chapters of the manga. The manga drawings of Kyo, just didn't have enough feeling. Anyway, I didn't particularly like this series, manga or anime. Just saying that I personally prefer the anime artwork. For those people who tell me the manga is so much better, thanks, I get it. But I'm still not going to read it.
Oh, I hate it when the make it into an anime and completely butcher. A long time ago I watch "Kamikaze Kaito Jeanne" (the anime) and it was like a completely different story line then the manga. I didn't really like it and it had a sucky ending that was completely polar from the one in the anime.
ReplyDeleteThe anime of "Full moon wo sagashite" was also totally different fro mthe manga. There was no resemblance what so ever but it was actually enjoyable and a story that would stand well on its own.
"Kamikaze Kaitou Jeanne" was like the first Anime I´ve watched (after Sailor Moon xDDD I know I´m a girly xDD)and I reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally loved it (okay, I was 10 back then^^), but now people keep telling me the Manga´s much better. I might start reading it now... As far as I can say until now: The drawing style seems much more amazing, I LUV those great eyes :P
ReplyDelete@Mechi: SRY for not commenting for sooooooooooooooooooo long :'( I know you probably hate for for that... But I´m somehow gonna make it up to you, I promise!! I´m just not reaaaaaaally confident in my English skills at all, so I thought I better keep my mouth shut here....
You did a great job with the latest chapters of Skip Beat and I LUVed your translations of the PSPgame!!!
Ouran-Girl08 (OuranGirlHoney)~
The problem with manga to anime adaptations is that they like to begin working on the anime before the manga is complete so they catch up to the manga very quickly. Then they have three choices, continue on with original material, end the season/series, or make filler episodes while waiting on the manga.
ReplyDeleteGreat Teacher Onizuka is an example of the first. They caught up with the manga about half way through then did their own thing and it is horrible. I dearly love the manga, but the anime is horrendous. Prior to catching up with the manga they followed it decently well. These series tend to be the worst too.
Skip Beat! and Hajime no Ippo are examples of the second. They caught up and stopped. Both of these remain relatively truthful to the manga in content and style. Hajime no Ippo came out with a second season, but I have no idea why they stopped again. There is already enough material for two, maybe three more seasons.
Dragon Ball Z, Bleach, and Naruto are examples of the third. These also tend to be the really big and popular series that go on for years.
Moving away from just manga and anime to general media you do find times when adaptations are wildly different where the source material is just the base. Take Taming of the Shrew to 10 Things I Hate About You. An adaptation is not necessarily a literal translation and even when you do attempt a translation there are different ways to go about it. Mechigouki, you recently pointed out the differences of translating the words and translating the meaning. Think of it like that.
How you would adapt a story in a painting?
About GTO. I don't know how to explain it. I loved the drama, but hate the manga, and the anime. IMHO, the manga was complete bullshit. I distinctly remember 2 parts. 1, he stuffed some guy's mouth with used tampons. 2, he arm-wrestled around 50 people and won each time. Complete bullshit. I like the drama series, but not the original manga, sadly.
ReplyDeleteOh, BTW, I disagree on Skip Beat. Didn't I mention that they cut out Kanae's arc completely? The only reason I can think of, is that throwing kids is something they don't want to show on television.
I think I've also pointed out various other changes as well. Skip Beat anime is not one of those I would consider relatively truthful to the manga.
Moving away from just manga and anime to general media you do find times when adaptations are wildly different where the source material is just the base. Take Taming of the Shrew to 10 Things I Hate About You. An adaptation is not necessarily a literal translation and even when you do attempt a translation there are different ways to go about it.
ReplyDeleteI disagree. Translating the same meaning of a sentence, from one language, to another, IS NOT the same as telling the same story, from still art, and changing it to motion picture.
When you are retelling the same story from the manga, into the anime form, you do not have to change it. It can still be as close to the original as possible, and there is usually very little reason not to. It's a simple choice between being as accurate as possible, or being ludicrously creative as you can.
The way you are saying it, is as if these changes are not just forgivable, they are expected, and required.
And how would you explain Loki Matentei Ragnarok and Samurai Deeper Kyo? Even if they start work halfway, it still doesn't explain how everything in the middle, beginning, and end, all differ so much.
You can't take GTO's antics seriously, but the meaning of it is great and I like how it's usually muddled and enhanced by the craziness. Maybe you got too caught up on the antics that dominate the manga to enjoy it? To each their own.
ReplyDeleteThey still remained relatively close to the manga. I didn't say things weren't cut out. The content and pacing has to fit for the anime. This is part of the result of changing mediums. However, it was still pretty close to the point of carrying over the metaphors, similar facial expressions, and keyframes that could be dragged straight from the manga.
I think you misunderstand that these are adaptations. I'm no more saying that "these changes are not just forgivable, they are expected, and required" as you are saying an adaptation is "expected and required" to not have "these changes" and it is unforgivable if so. There are no rules and telling the same story over does not require any solid connection to the original.
And going from one language to another is very similar to changing art from one medium to another. Different mediums can have different cultural attachments within the same culture which does bring about a change. When these changes are not made a possibly good piece of artwork can turn bad. Imagine if the GTO drama was the same as the manga. Do you think you would have liked the drama? What works for one medium doesn't work for another.
The thing about translating a sentence is that the goal is to get across the meaning. Sometimes you lose implications and gain other ones. That's why there are translator notes to explain the cultural points. A translator can also be extremely specific or be general. Then there are cases like Tamil and Sanskrit where the fact something is in one language or the other greatly alters how people receive the information.
I'm not familiar enough with Loki Matentei Ragnarok or Samurai Deeper Kyo. The latter I tried to watch at some point, but... yeah. It's bad.
How would you adapt a story into a painting?
There are no rules and telling the same story over does not require any solid connection to the original.
ReplyDeleteI disagree. There are unsaid rules and expectations. First and most important, being the title. Example, when the anime titled Samurai Deeper Kyo came out, were people expecting to see Kenyos? When people are told an anime adaptation of a manga is released, I'm pretty sure they are expecting to see the same story, not a newly created work.
Saying that there are no rules, and no connections to the original required, is as good as saying that anyone can manipulate, copy the title and character names, but rearrange it any way he or she wishes before presenting it. In short, to quote an Avatar line, pure pissing on the work of art without the courtesy of calling it rain.
And going from one language to another is very similar to changing art from one medium to another.
Sometimes you lose implications and gain other ones.
A translator can also be extremely specific or be general.
Again, I repeat, they are not the same, but not entirely different. Depending on the language used, it's possible to keep the entire overall meaning, but not literally word for word.
When we are talking about changing from a manga to an anime, it is VERY POSSIBLE to do so accurately, word for word, scene by scene, without any deviations, or removals.
I do not think you can apply the same logic for translations, as you can for different media of the same story.
The thing about translating a sentence is that the goal is to get across the meaning.
I'm pretty sure the whole point of a manga or anime, is to get the story across. A story has many elements, including plot, setting, characters etc. You can tell the story on manga, and you can tell the same story on anime, without altering said elements. You don't have to change the characters, you don't have to add new characters, you don't have to remove scenes, and you don't have to add scenes.
A sentence that is translated, can still convey the same overall message across. But how can the same thing be applied to story? A difference in language, translation process can result in losses of segments of literal meanings, rendering impossible the use of puns and wordplays, but you can still get the meaning across. That is the barrier encountered in translations.
But how can you apply the same logic to a manga to anime transformation? What is to stop you from retaining all elements of the plot? It is a matter of whether you want to keep it, or don't want to keep it.
To quote an example, using the Skip Beat anime, what is to stop them from displaying the part where Kyouko knew Mimori? The school scene can easily be played out in anime. And the part where Kyouko gives Mimori the killer look, can just as well be played out in anime. The only thing is whether they want to do it or not, and they chose not to.
So what's the difference between a translation process, and a manga-to-anime change? The most important would be in the former, losses usually can't be helped. In the latter, losses of information is a wilful act, not necessarily required.
When these changes are not made a possibly good piece of artwork can turn bad.
The same logic is applied in reverse. When these changes ARE made, a possibly good piece of artwork can turn bad. There's no lack of examples for this.
Imagine if the GTO drama was the same as the manga. Do you think you would have liked the drama? What works for one medium doesn't work for another.
ReplyDeleteProbably not....
Definitely not.
Hell no.
If the drama is anything like the manga, I would have puked everytime I watched it, and get nightmares.
But that doesn't necessarily justify the changes for the stories. They may not have to be changed.
Look at it this way. If you created a story, would you allow those publishing the story to alter it any way they please? If you do, then I really can't argue.
How would you adapt a story into a painting?
ReplyDeleteThe same way you turn food into music. In short, you can't.
But how do you turn a story from a manga, into a story for an anime? Answer, you take the same story from the manga, and you make the anime tell that same story.
How you go about doing that, in a very simplified way (which I know in reality is more complex), turn speech bubbles into voice quotes, color the art, and make several frames of art per second.
"Ah, Spherrow. Just the person I most wanted to see. I suppose you didn't post in the chapter 172 section, because it wasn't good enough for you, am I right?"
ReplyDeleteRight. :3
But really? I've just been super busy. Work, school, travel for work AND school, mid terms, tests, term papers, all that, AND I have a husband to take care of. *sigh*
I'll be happy when this semester's over!
@Spherrow
ReplyDeleteWell excuse me for not making 172 to your liking. Maybe I should have left that task to your favorite scan group.
XD
ReplyDeleteYou nut!
Wanna do my Industrial Hygiene exam for me? Then I can stick around and post bunches in the ch. 172 thread...
Can you also make one for Ah my Goddess :D I reaaaallly love the anime but I haven't read the manga yet. Thanks! :D
ReplyDelete"So what's the difference between a translation process, and a manga-to-anime change? The most important would be in the former, losses usually can't be helped. In the latter, losses of information is a wilful act, not necessarily required."
ReplyDelete"When we are talking about changing from a manga to an anime, it is VERY POSSIBLE to do so accurately, word for word, scene by scene, without any deviations, or removals."
That is almost an appeal to ignorance. Let's take one of the biggest factors of the conversion. Time.
In still images there is no way to set the flow of time and pacing. Often the use of shrinking boxes is used to show a sort of passing, but in anime time is a very real element. Pacing takes on a whole new life. Time also restricts what can be said and elements must be removed to meet that restriction. Do you think Peter Brooks willfully changed the Mahabharata to create his play and film adaptations? Simple fact is that it would be far too long if he didn't.
Now maybe, in a crazy sense of story telling, they decided they wanted to get to a certain part in the story line to make a somewhat decent story arc, but they have to pull it off in a single season and there is too much content. So they cut stuff out to make it fit.
Just because you don't consider the factors involved doesn't mean they don't exist and can be completely ignored.
"The same logic is applied in reverse. When these changes ARE made, a possibly good piece of artwork can turn bad. There's no lack of examples for this."
And? That doesn't refute the initial logic at all. Or should we look back at that horrible Hulk movie where Woo tried to give it a comic book feel?
"But that doesn't necessarily justify the changes for the stories. They may not have to be changed.
Look at it this way. If you created a story, would you allow those publishing the story to alter it any way they please? If you do, then I really can't argue."
Welcome to commercial entertainment? The setting of something calls for a lot of changes. It's like saying that because a person made a macaroni picture as a kid they shouldn't do any other kind of artwork as an adult. Things grow. They change. And who in the hell ever said someone doesn't keep an eye on what is being changed to curb potential bastardizing of the source?
Here is the thing, you can either play ball and fight with them, let them do whatever the hell they want with it (sell out), or just not have it published.
Or you can be Douglas Adams who liked every retelling of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy to be a little different than the ones that came before it, but I'm pretty sure he fought with his editors a lot too.
Personally, I don't think we will see eye to eye on this and that will be that. I just feel you are being too close minded on this.
I agree with most of what I've read (although admittedly I've only scanned, there is just tooo much to read.
ReplyDeleteDramas are different from animes though. In a drama you have the whole aspect of "real" people doing the deeds that were drawn out. I, for one, would hate a drama of Inu Yasha or Fruit Baskets.
I picked on those two because there is no way they will ever find someone as remotely as appealing as Sesshoumaro in real life, and because seriously, while it works in the anime a giant dog in real life would just be frightening. And the concept of people jumping from tree to tree with what seems to be stepping on air is already cliche as it is. Last thing we need is a woman as annoying as Kagome and a guy with dog ears doing the exact same thing. Plus Shippo would have to be taller, unless they hire a two year old. While some things are ok in the manga and anime, a guy who goes around groping people would give the worst image in a drama.
Now as for why I picked Furuba, well, picture it, some random guy playing Kyo, or Ayame, and the whole turning into animals thing? You'd have to be very well funded to do this. Or you end up with something similar to the drama of Hell Girl. Which in all honesty wasn't that bad but it reminded me of Ju-On.
If we adapt certain series to dramas a lot of things would be lost, and grossly done. Yuuko? Where are you going to find a freakishly tall woman to play a decent Yuuko? Drama CDs are one thing, but an entire series that tries to put however many volumes of that manga are out, into a limited amount of TV time? There are bound to be some weird mishaps with the plot.
Gah! This is dragging on forever!
I hope I made my point though? ^^u
OH! By the way, I read this blog religiously, I just never had the guts to post anything > n <
If you've only read 2 HP books, then you couldn't have noticed how shamelessly mutilated the movies are are..precisely from the 3rd movie onwards. The 1st and 2nd movies are the only ones I actually liked as worthy adaptations until they released the first part of the deathly hallow.
ReplyDeleteThe 3rd Movie is the one I find suffering the most. The 4th was a little better, the 6th was almost as badly mutilated as the 3rd, but the 7th only cut off some things that weren't necessary, a good choice to make it fit in a short movie adaptation, the ending was in the best place it could have been to make the continuity work with the next and last HP installment.
About the Skip Beat adaptation, I did realize some of the things you said were cut off or edited, I didn't like it, but it was not enough to make me hate the anime. I only wish there could be a second season. It's a pity they didn't continue the story in anime. I've fond that shoujos are really difficult to be adapted into animes, I really would have liked a Tokyo Crazy Paradise anime
Finally, about Full Metal Alchemist...The first anime was really the worst adaptation I've ever seen...I mean,worse than a 4kids butchered version.
If you only saw the first cepisode of Brotherhood, then you haven't seen enough to make a real judgement on which adaptation is better. The first episode was just fodder and bones showing off their high budget effects. The real first episode is the second one...in Lior.
As both animes are adaptations of the same manga, the beginning is almost the same, brotherhood speeds off the first 15 episodes so the same content won't feel to boring for those who are familiar with the first anime. From episode 15 on it's a different story altogether: new characters, villains and arcs.
I really hated the first anime, tough ... the gave important roles to minor characters , made up a lame villain (named Dante) and made her the Elric brothers' stepmom (sort of)...And the industrial quantity of flanderization (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Flanderization) was really annoying.
@Hikari
ReplyDeleteReally? 0_0
I didn't know that the first deviated from the storyline actually, until I read about it.
I don't know why, but apparently, Arakawa herself requested the anime to deviate, so that her manga had a different outcome.
To be honest, I don't dislike the first series. It was good in it's own way.
@Axelle
I can understand that.
But tell me, what do you think of Zettai Kareshi?
Seems a little bit too.... well, exaggerated, to me. But what do you think?
That is almost an appeal to ignorance. Let's take one of the biggest factors of the conversion. Time.
ReplyDeleteIn still images there is no way to set the flow of time and pacing. Often the use of shrinking boxes is used to show a sort of passing, but in anime time is a very real element. Pacing takes on a whole new life. Time also restricts what can be said and elements must be removed to meet that restriction.
How does that justify removal of entire story arcs? How does that justify complete removal of characters, or wilfully creating new ones.
And what about another factor? Story? Is that not important enough to be considered?
That situation you described, obviously applies to how much content you can squeeze in within that time frame. This doesn't apply to situation, where entire scenes are cut out, or the story itself changed.
And? That doesn't refute the initial logic at all.
Who's refuting the logic? I'm saying it work both ways! The change can make it good, but it can also make it bad. I'm saying it work both ways! You only pointed out one side.
It's like saying that because a person made a macaroni picture as a kid they shouldn't do any other kind of artwork as an adult.
This is complete bullshit. I never said anything remotely close to this. I said anime story should not be altered wilfully to great extents. Huge difference!
And who in the hell ever said someone doesn't keep an eye on what is being changed to curb potential bastardizing of the source?
I don't know, and I don't see what has this got to do with me. Point is, a select few anime have already been altered to the point where it can be considered bastardizing, more or less.
Do you even understand what is my point in the first post? My point is that anime adaptations have been altered too much from the manga. My stand is that the anime adaptations should be as close in content to the originals as much as possible.
You brought out a very important point: timeframe, which I admittedly had not thought.
But how would you justify changes made to anime like Samurai Deeper Kyo, Loki Ragnarok and Love Hina?
I just feel you are being too close minded on this.
More than one of us is. You're telling me this is justified, I refused to believe that, that is all. I'm not going to agree with your standpoint.
I've got my own views on this, so excuse me for not being open-minded enough to agree with you 100%!
Don't even get me started in Zettai Kareshi!
ReplyDeleteThere are some manga that are meant to stay in that form or simply never get past the anime form. Zettai Kareshi is not just exaggerated, it's downright annoying! The concept is fine for a drama, sometimes they just never do it right!!
Like an American version of Full Metal Panic! That's supposed to be out in the air at the moment. I swear, Zac Efron as Sousuke will be the straw that drives me to suicide (not really).
But like I said, this is all the opinion of a very critical person, I'm not trying to offend and I apologize if I have. ^^u
I think Negima is the worst adaptation series from manga into anime cause both series deviated so much from the manga as to have nothing to do with the actual story, the OVAS have tried to follow events from the manga but fail they should just remake the series instead to follow the manga like they did with Full Metal Alchemist there is probably enough material for two 24 episode seasons by now which brings me to another point it infuriates me when a really cool anime comes yet they limit it to 13 episodes.
ReplyDelete@Axelle: I don't watch a lot of InuYasha, but I definitely agree with what you mentioned about Fruits Basket. I didn't like the last parts of the anime after I read the grace ending of the manga. This is the anime worth adding into the list.
ReplyDelete@Mechgouki: I know the deviation is sucks, but it doesn't only happen to manga-adapted animes. It also happens a lot on anime-adapted mangas, like Blood+.
Btw, perhaps you can add "Hakushaku to Yousei" into your list. The story really deviates from the original story. Still good, though, but disappointing.
About Skip Beat!'s anime, it's really disappointing that they cut it in the middle of "Dark Moon" arc. Like, "What the hell?". They even don't give a clear ending. And in the ending credits Hiou-kun just appears from nowhere. It's okay for the ones reading the manga, but what about the ones who don't?
ReplyDelete@Regulusgal
ReplyDeleteI did not watch InuYasha as much as I should have, admittedly I read the manga, then watched a few episodes and was annoyed with Kagome's voice. I hated her to begin with, but good-lord I couldn't stand her voice!!
(I tried this anime in like 4 languages too and I just, well never liked it)
And I agree with HakuYou!
I was SO disappointed and you do have a point with Blood+.
I think I just dislike deviations period...
The differences animes have from their manga counter parts can be extremely frustrating at times. Favorite arcs and characters can be omitted and entirely different stories can pop up out of nowhere. It is a bit more forgivable when it's suggested by the original author but that rarely happens.
ReplyDeleteMost times I try to enjoy it just for the ability to see the beloved story animated but I usually abandon it once the story gets to warped in a way i dislike. By the most part i can tolerate most changes pretty well. I simply put the anime on the same level as a fan fiction. Although it's a bit of a goofy comparison. FFs take the basic story and characters and thoroughly abuse the heck out of it. You'll run across a few good ones that are rather true and good but most veer off track crazily. Even if the anime is nutz and does some odd things it has it's own charms at times. The problem with animes are that their usually eddied for time and a in a fashion that makes it more profitable.
Hi Mechgouki, first time posting here, I've been reading your blog since quite long ago. Thank you for nice work!
ReplyDeleteAbout the differences anime/manga; Skip Beat: I think it keeps the main plot though omitted some parts as you said. I find that Ren looks a bit different than he does in the manga; all others looks quite the same. Don't like the way they ended the anime; it seams rushed and has an open ending, if they planned to have such and end, they should've done the next season/episodes right away. For someone that has not read the manga, the anime has no sense!
I also watched Vampire Knight seasons 1 & 2; I consider this anime keeps the plot quite well with the manga story line; at present don't recall any big difference.
I just wonder why to make an anime of an ongoing manga and leave it half way? Are they waiting to gather more chapters to make the continuation? Or was it just a test?
I have watched some other old, old ones and when I finally realized they were made from a manga, I found the story line was very different; the manga is always better!
damn, i didn't copy my post... I don't wanna to write all of this once more. So in short.
ReplyDeleteGood adaptations (I like them and, in spite of mushishi, I haven't read manga:
- Kimi ni todoke
- Mushishi
- Sayonara zetsubou sensei
- Hellsing ultimate
- Bakuman.
- School Rumble
Bad adaptations
- Bleach
- Special A
- Ouran High School Host Club
- Hellsing
Literal adaptations
- Honey and Clover
- Nodame Cantabile
- Nana
- Kaichou wa Maid-sama!
Adaptations that shouldn't exist:
- Fruit Basket
- Vampire Knight
- Peach Girl
And...
- Sailor Moon - come on, everybody knows it's unwatchable, but we still love it :P
I don't like when an anime last story arc is like: 'WTF!?' because a manga is still ongoing, and the anime should end. I don't like both solutions:
a) end with some made up story (usually they are really bad and speed the plot too much)
b) end half in the story (shoujo anime usually don't get 2nd season)
My solution: make adaptation after manga is finished
I don't like literal adaptations. If I've read manga first they bore me, if I haven't, I've got a huge problem with reading manga (but i want to know what happens next so much!)
My solution: they shoul alternate a story a little bit. Interpret events differently, change story arcs that doesn't put plot further (like skipping story about a sport festival and putting story about an amusement park instead)
And about HP...
HP1, HP2 - literal adaptation
HP3, HP4 - they are screwed
HP5 was good, there was essence of events from book (which is too long and boring)
HP6 there is no way of making good movie form THAT plot
HP7 if it had been made like HP5, it could have been great, but it is instead made twice long as normal... And that scene with Hermiona and Harry dancing... I still have nightmares :(
I found something... not sure if these are the full raws or if you can use them, but... http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kz=1041007988
ReplyDeletebtw... I hate having to log in with my google account ^^;;
If you get a chance, read the book The Princess Bride. The author was the one whom adapted it for the movie. There are changes, some more significant than others. But you know, he kept the tone just right. Fairy tale with tongue in cheek and just a bit of sugar to make it sweet.
ReplyDelete